Quite a few of my Canadian mom blog friends (and a friend in real life!) are expecting and I got to chatting with them about all things pregnancy and childbirth related in Canada.
And I got a smidge jealous, I’ll admit.
And my Canadian friend Jen is feeling very home sick now, since having a homebirth is a lot more difficult and pricy here than it was in her home up north.
For one thing, Canada’s health insurance covers home birth attended by midwives. Second, there are more qualified midwives in Canada – and ones that are respected as much as OB/GYNs – than there are around here in Kansas.
But what really struck me is Canada’s policy for benefits you can receive from the government after you have a baby. You and your husband.
That is a very condensed comparison. “To be entitled to maternity, parental or sickness benefits you must show that:
- your regular weekly earnings have been decreased by more than 40%; and
- you have accumulated 600 insured hours in the last 52 weeks or since your last claim. This period is called the qualifying period.”
You can get up to $425 a week from the government during this time of leave from your place of employment. Then, your employer can choose to pay the rest of your salary during this time away or not.
And you know what our U.S. Department of Labor says? That eligible employees of covered employers can take unpaid leave and be guaranteed their job back with full benefits when they return from leave. So that doesn’t cover everyone and it is unpaid.
Tenille from the blog Feisty Frugal and Fabulous is a current resident of Canada and expecting her third child. With her first, she was the breadwinner of the family so she took the entire year that she qualified for. Then she was a Stay at home mom with her 2nd and her husband took a 3 month paid leave.
Now with their third he is taking 5 months paid leave, “since we think this is our last baby, that’s what prompted my husband to take 5 full months,” she said. “He will never have the opportunity to do it again, to be at home with all of us through the summer months, with a wee baby, at full pay.”
Her baby will be born in April and her husband will be going back to work at the end of August. Tenille said they will spend this time first adjusting to life with a new baby and travelling around during summer vacation. Since she doesn’t breastfeed he will be just as hands on as she is with feeding and all.
Heather from Home To Heather is currently on maternity leave with her 2nd child, and she took the entire year paid leave since she is currently employed as a Sales and Marketing Coordinator. She is breastfeeding and said that taking a full year off from work doesn’t make it harder to fit in at work, but what is hard is “the hardest in fact, was finding childcare and leaving my baby after being with her everyday for a year.”
I was speaking over this news with my friend Jen today over tea. She said they pay a lot more tax in Canada, but the benefits – to her – are totally worth it. That got me thinking, what would life be like if moms were given money to stay home with their kids after they had them? Shoot, after Lucy was born I only had somebody home for 3 days! And that was after a c-section! I believe it would be amazing to have him home with me for even the first 2 months. So if you want to reap the benefits, start looking at the most in demand jobs in Canada here.
Just curious – would you pay higher taxes if that meant you could collect benefits to have more time off work (or if you are a SAHM, have your husband home?)
Me? I think I would! It really is stressful for moms to find daycare for their newborns and being able to stay home would be such a blessing for them. And personally, I would pay a lot more in taxes if that meant I could have my husband home with me to help with things while we get used to another tiny baby.
As a Canadian, I’m always saddened by the lack of Gov. Maternity leave in the states. The taxes are absolutely worth it – although, I’ve never had to live without them.
What I don’t understand is how it could possibly benefit an employer to have someone return to work two weeks (as I read one woman had to do) after birth. How is someone who has not yet recovered from giving birth and is likely exhausted do a good job? It really doesn’t seem to be in the best interest of an employer to have an employee there who is functioning on broken (or no) sleep and is completely distracted by thoughts of a newborn.
I can’t even imagine, and kudos to you ladies who do it because you have no choice.
Thank you! Yes, it is so hard for moms to leave their teeny newborns after 6 short weeks. I know so many moms that have to though, in order to keep their job 🙁
And you make a good point – what woman is ready to go back to work after 6 weeks? I am 2 months in and still no good to anyone!
I have enjoyed three maternity leaves in Canada. My first one was only six months and then it had changed to the 12 month leaves with my other two. The time just flies and I don’t know how moms in the US cope with such a short time off?
My sister is a Canadian living (and working) in MI. She is expecting her second child in June. After her first she dropped to part time at work. They are planning to move home in August this year so her plan is not to return to work…but, if their plans fall through (her hubby not being accepted to university back here in Ontario) she is worried about having to go back to work after only six weeks and arranging childcare for now two children. She was so worried about it that she was considering going full time again just so she was guaranteed the 12 weeks off.
She works as a nurse, and has worked in both countries and she is an advocate for the US system in regards to better care (shorter wait times), but she says it is because the patient is called a client and treated as a paying customer. In Canada our wait times can be unreal.
I think in regards to our parental leave, we are on the right track. Never would I suggest that our system is better or without flaws. But, I do think that Canada has a long term vision about the importance of those first years that the US may be lacking. I really hope that things change in the States…even a six month leave would be a great start.
Thank you for sharing about your sister – that gives me a new perspective! I had no idea about the wait times. That would really be hard to deal with, I have complained about wait times here, and i never will again.
Yes, even a 6 month leave would be wonderful! And granting the husband some time off, that would be nice. But mine wouldn’t have taken it LOL
I think this just shows that Canada and other countries have a more family based outlook than we do here in the United States. I think the bonding time with for families is a great idea, and could help nurture a strong family tie that lots of times does not exist in the US. Yes, even though I am a grandmother now, I would pay higher taxes so that my grown children could stay home and take care of their own babies for a longer period of time. I didn’t work after my children were born until the oldest one was 5 years old, and I really enjoyed the time I had with my babies.
Being Canadian and having always lived in Canada I don’t know what it means to not pay the taxes we do. However when you look at everything we do get I believe it is worth the taxes we pay.
I remember a friend of mine in the states had a baby and 3 months later was back at work. 3 months after that she was deployed (Navy). I could not understand it and still can’t.
Though if you think Canada is lucky for new parents you should check out some countries overseas. I hear that what Canadians get is peanuts compared to some of them.
Totally disagree! If you were to personally save and invest the money that the gov’ment took out in taxes you could fund a years leave yourself. Example you earn 50K, in America you would net $700/wk take-home. Probably more if you utilize deductions. In Canada you are more likely to bring home $450/wk. even putting $250/wk in savings is $12,000/yr. which is what it appears the parental leave is paying. If you wait two years to start having kids and save $25,000 and spend 3 of the next five years home on leave you will self fund $50,000 of leave time and then for the rest of your life will have access to the $250/wk you were setting aside for your own personal use. In Canada you will never see it again. 7 total years of living on less vs 50 in Canada – for the same net benefit of a couple years off when your kids are young.
I used $50k as the reference because the average household income in America is $48k. I have six kids and have not worked a day since my third child came home. My husband works from home and sees the kids as much as I do. He gets up at 4 am to be able to do this. It would infuriate me to pay taxes when we have sacrificed lifestyle for a decade and are at the point of payoff because others aren’t willing to do the same.
you have an excellent point! But, even if people here in the USA did self-fund their own leave (which I am always against higher taxes) legally your job can fire you for taking too much time off work. The way the law is now, a woman or man can only take off up to 12 weeks maximum for parental leave. I am sure some people could do 12 weeks and then take vacation and sick days, but then what happens when a child really does get sick and you don’t have any more vacation or sick days?
So if we self fund our own leave, I think there outta be a law that says employers must grant people up to 6 months leave. By 6 months breastfed babies are taking solids…..that length of time seems better to me than 12 short weeks. What do you think?
You also have to look at it from the perspective of a business owner. The business needs x amount of man hours to run. If you are gone for six months, they need someone in there to fill that slot and are basically paying 2 people for 1 slot. This will affect their bottom line and necessitate either higher prices or lower wages. If you are a valuable employee your employer will welcome you back with open arms. If you are simply a slot filler, that job is already taken, and you can fill another slot in another company.
We can’t have it both ways, we can not simultaneously be indispensable and easily replaced. In order for us to take off multiple months at our own whims, we have to be easily replaceable, and in becoming easily replaceable, we are no longer indispensable.
When I left my job, it sucked. I had intended to go back to work but my kid wouldn’t take a bottle. Faced with the choice of spending every break and lunch hour in the breakroom breastfeeding, and hoping that whomever was watching the kid would stop by at a mutually convenient time seemed silly. I didn’t go back, the company lived on, that shattered me a bit. But I had to make a choice. They had a job to do and I couldn’t do it. Turned out that I loved being home. Had they had to pay me for a year and then have me make that decision would not have been fair to them. They gave me three months to decide, unpaid. Every single day of those three months I dreaded. Am I going to be able to go back to work. I wonder if the reports are getting done correctly. I wonder if they are going to promote Diane to supervisor because she’s there and I’m not and the only reason I’m not there is because I had a baby and on and on and on. When I quit it completely freed me from half of my worries.
Had I gone back after a year of paid leave I would have gone back to being a department head. All the people I worked with had either quit or been promoted. I would be leading strangers who’d been there for months who didn’t know me, didn’t know how awesome I was and didn’t have any respect for me. I’d have been pissed off because all my former peers, some of whom I couldn’t stand would have been promoted above me. I am so glad I didn’t. I would have walked into the same pay grade I left while people I trained were making more. It just reeks of awfulness on so many levels for me personally. My going back would have been more beneficial to the company than to me.
I’ve moved on to something better because I wasn’t tied to something.
If you ask me, the problem is personal debt. How many people HAVE to have an income to pay the mortgage and the multiple car payments? We enslave our selves because we want a bigger better everything. I do not think that the gov’ment getting involved is a solution in any way, shape or form. Look at the situation schools are in, Detroit is talking closing half of their schools and having 60 KIDS in a classroom. Mail vs Fedex. The stinkin’ DMV. If they get involved will it eventually lead to “we’ll do this for the 1st kid or the first 3 kids” or do we also fund the Duggars and the Octomom’s of the world?
I 100% agree w/ this commenter. Its not up to the government to give us time off for our kids…or pay for it. Its up to us to be responsible for those life changes. We cannot fund everything and this is one of those not really needed situations.
I love everything about our healthcare and insurance up here in Canada. I took the full year off with my daughter then decided to continue indefinitely. I couldn’t imagine having to hand my child off to a babysitter since I don’t have family nearby. I love having the opportunity to spend all day everyday with her and it saddens me that the same options aren’t available in the U.S.
I was about to go back to work after 12 weeks off with Lizzie and then just stayed away. I couldn’t hand her off that early either! But my situation was a bit different – she was breastfed and refused any bottle and nipple (with breastmilk) people tried to give her. She as only 2 months old and when 5 hours without anything to eat! (I was in a class finishing up my degree)
Nope, those first few months are so important.
I am so glad though that our government is taking steps to “encourage breastfeeding” in the workplace and “make it easier” for moms to pump there. That is one step in the right direction at least.
I would have to agree with annieology – if the government wouldn’t take out all the taxes they do, we would be able to do a lot more with our hard earned money. So no, I would say it’s not the government’s business to take more of our money and then give it back to us later on and expect us to be grateful. Just let us have it from the beginning! 🙂
I think it would be great if companies had a policy for paid maternity/paternity leave for their own employees and were more family friendly, but not if the government is forcing them to be that way.
My 2 cents.
“not if the government is forcing them to be that way” as the wife of a small business owner this comment rings so true to me. They have policies they have to follow just cause everyone else in the US has to as well. My husband hates it! And he agrees with you about wanting his money back for him to spend how he pleases. (And don’t even get him started on unions LOL)
I don’t know what would have to happen to make this change, but here in the US it really saddens me that so many moms have to go back to work so soon or else they lose their jobs.
I bet if more companies offered really long paid leaves (like 4 months or better yet, 6!) They would have happier, more productive employees.
The Health insurance in Canada is not federal it’s provincial and varies from province to province. I presume that home-births are covered in each one, but I’m not positive about that.
I am now American – but was born and lived in Canada when My daughter was born. That was 15 years ago, so it was different then. It was 6 months of leave with 70% of your wages.
There are pros and cons to this, coming from someone who could take it.
Yes the taxes are lot more in Canada. I think that only the people that have lived, worked, and paid taxes on both sides of the border can really know what the tax difference really is. It’s a lot more than you think it is – and of course because your taxes are based on your salary, the more you make the more you pay.
It’s great staying home to be with your little ones (definite pro) but…imagine now Annie that you work out side the home. With your three little ones, and taking a years leave with each, how much time in the last 4 years would you have been at work?
That is where the biggest con I can see comes in. My husband worked with someone liked that (3 children within 4 1/2 years) – actually the whole time he worked there he barely saw her. And (he worked for the government) they were required to keep her position open for her. It was a real strain on their department. It doesn’t do much for morale when someone gets paid their full salary, benefits and accrues vacation time, when they are not actually ‘working’ at the job they have.
I think that the 6 months that I received with my daughter was plenty, I went back to work for 4 weeks, and then decided I wanted to be a stay at home mom, so I left my employment.
I meant to comment on that in my original comment as well – homebirth is not covered in every province. There is ONE midwife in my province, and she is not covered, other provinces have varying amounts of midwives and they are in high demand. If you wanted one that was not available to everyone under healthcare, you’d be paying out of pocket.
Thanks for including me in your post! After being through the ‘system’ twice I really can’t complain. Sure we pay higher taxes but each and every time I’ve needed service those takes are paying for I’ve been grateful. Maternity leave, unemployment insurance, healthcare, etc etc….they are all wonderful to have at crisis points in our lives. To not have to worry about paying bills for my c-section when I’m newly off work with a new baby to feed is a wonderful thing. Who needs or wants that stress? I think it’s horrible to ask a new mom who should be bonding with their child to return to work after only 6 weeks. In Canada we often joke that paying taxes is just part of being a ‘good’ Canadian – just like standing in line for coffee is 😀
With FMLA in the U.S. they do have to keep your job or actually it’s A job, not necessarily the one you left or the hours you originally worked. I worked in healthcare and saw many that took the full 12 weeks and when they came back they were forced to work different hours because they needed to fill their position.
I actually think if those in Washington were to propose something like this we’d have a revolution on our hands. When they started talking about government funded healthcare how many complained because they refuse to pay higher taxes so someone in poor health could reap the benefits. I see the same thing happening with this. Childless couples or those not planning on anymore kids would not want to fund this for those that want to have 4-5 kids in a short period of time. Not to mention those on Social Security who haven’t seen a COLA in 2 years and are in fear of the fund drying up. Hard earned money and tax dollars in the U.S. never stay with the plan they were intended.
Then you have those that are working and have to pick up the slack for the lack of one or more employee on maternity leave. People won’t complain if it’s short term but I do know after having surgery and being off for 6 weeks there were complaints about the increased workload. I can’t even begin to imagine the low moral having to do it for 6 months to a year not to mention the decrease in productivity. The employer can get temps to fill in the gaps but it takes time to train and maybe move responsibilities around because the temp can’t do the job that’s vacant.
I have to say that the idea of what’s best for the individual here is sort of thrown out the window for the idea of what’s best for our nation. Maternity leave falls under our unemployment system so the same pool you pay into for mat leave also covers if you are laid off from work etc. Everyone benefits even if you never have kids. When that inevitable day comes that you lose your job and are off looking for a new one – you’ll be covered. Almost every Canadian uses the system at some point. It benefits all of us – there are even benefits available for you to be off work to help a sick loved one. I think we’d be hard pressed to find someone who paid into the system their whole life without pulling something out at one time or another.
That’s true, most people do use the system at least at one point in their lives but to what expense? When this came up last week somewhere else, my husband and I tallied up the taxes we paid for Manitoba Medical, and only from the point when we were married – we were both employed before that too, and had paid into the system. For the taxes that we paid in, for regular doctor’s checkups, one regular birth and two emergency room visits – we FAR overpaid for what it would have cost us out of pocket. We would have saved way more money if we wouldn’t have been taxed so high and just paid the bills.
I have no problem ‘sharing the wealth’ to an extent, but the problem is when those that pay more into the system because they make more, fund those that don’t and they use it irresponsibly. We chose to have one child, and the taxes we both paid into the unemployment pool covered my 6 month mat leave – in the combined 20 years that we worked and paid in, neither of us claimed unemployment (and yes for that I am thankful). But the debate remains – why should those that never use it have to fund those who choose to have 4 or 5 or more children?
Not everything in life can be planned. You were lucky that you didn’t need the system but it could have easily happened that you lost your jobs or had a ‘surprise’ baby and then you would have needed / used that resource. It’s a small picture view to say ‘I don’t want kids, why should I pay?’ and if we look at the big picture and see what’s happening in Canadian society vs American society. The US has a greater ratio of destitute people (don’t know what it is, but know it’s higher than in Canada) to middle/upper class and nobody is looking after them. It’s easy to hit rock bottom if you lose your job / have an unexpected pregnancy and have no resource to float you through. Canada is doing better economically than the US and it’s programs like these that attribute to our successes IMHO. When people are secure financially they spend money…when they aren’t they bring the whole society down with them….
Tammy, it sounds like you are thinking like an American. What if the tables were turned? Not to mention people tend to use more medical when they get older.
I think it is pretty great that your government has nets in place for people that need help, we are definitely are dropping the ball south of the boarder. And it is just getting worse with all the budget cuts. They are cutting a lot of those programs that help people that need help.
I can’t say anything about paying taxes in the States because I’ve never personally done so. I will say that in my opinion the taxes I pay in Canada balance out the benefits our family has received in terms of services we have used and will use.
When we had our first daughter, I was able to take the full year off to be with her. My work had a temporary worker in my spot so they weren’t struggling. I also had to have my daughter by emergency c-section and I stayed in the hospital for three days afterwards – all at no cost because of those taxes.
Friends of ours had their daughter 5 weeks before us. At 6 weeks old, they found out that she had paralyzed vocal chords so barely any food was getting to her stomach and a hole in her heart that was too big to close. They had 3 doctor/surgeon appointments a week and she was hospitalized on numerous occasions. In my friends shoes, I couldn’t go back to work after 6 weeks of being off, but I would have to just to be able to pay a portion of the bills. They pay nothing and she could take the year off to be with her angel and get her to all of the appointments.
I realize this is a rare case, but it does happen.
And in my position, all I can say is I was so lucky to have every minute of the day of that first year watching my daughter grow and for me, the taxes are worth it. But that is not the case for everyone, and an important part to remember is that even though we have a year here, not everyone takes it.
I will be going on mat leave again in May and will be taking advantage of what we’ve been paying in to again.
Yes, our maternity/paternity leave here in Canada (and our healthcare in general) is pretty awesome. I don’t think a lot of people outside Canada realize though, that we literally lose about HALF our income to taxes.
The government isn’t just “giving” us all this paid time off for free. We pay for it each and every paycheque and it’s up to us if we want/can take the time off for our leaves.
Great article Annie and thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my own experience. My husband just got his T4 (our income tax slip for the year for his workplace) and I calculated that 25% went to income tax – we may get back a very small portion of that but yes, that’s the way it is.
We also pay property taxes on our houses every year (do you do that in the US?) which is a couple thousand on average ($2000-$5000 I’d guess, depending on where you live).
The taxes we pay go to social programs like EI and unfortunately to other programs that get highly HIGHLY abused in Canada like the welfare programs (life long welfare abusers are common). You take the good with the bad.
It’s foreign to me to consider ever paying a doctor’s bill or hospital bill – when our kids are sick we take them to the doctor or emergency room without a second thought about how we will pay for it. A hospital stay has no added stress of how we will pay the bill at the end.
Is our system perfect? Absolutely not. My father has cancer and we’ve been playing the waiting game here wondering when he will start treatment/chemo – but in the meantime he’s had 3 surgeries in the past 4 months that we didn’t pay a dime for. It’s all relative.
hey just to answer your question, I just figured the tax withholdings on our w-2. It looks like we pay a little over 20 % with all the taxes that are withheld from wages. Those are federal income, social security (which they say will not be around when we are old enough to retire- I guess this is the way our government lets us pay into the system to help others,) Medicare, and state income tax. We do pay property taxes.
I guess that is a total of about 5% difference. for us, that 5% would not cover a hospital birth, and would barely cover the birth center cost.
It sure is nice to be able to go in and get care when you know it is available. That is not an option for some people here.
MamaDweeb – I’m going to disagree with one statement. Fathers are covered by FMLA in the same way mothers are for the birth (or adoption) of a child. For neither parent is the leave paid, but as long as the employee qualifies (has worked the required number of hours in the previous 12 months for this employer, the employer has “x” number of employees within the specific radius, etc), then either parent can take the leave.
oh no!! I misread the department of labor’s page. (I made that graphic at 10pm….mommy brain was way mushy by then)
I am going to update that graphic. Thanks for pointing that out.
No problem. Thanks for not taking offense.
though I don’t have a lot to add to this discussion, I do find it very interesting to learn what Canada offers families and what the US offers families in regards to maternity leave and pay. Great post!
As the wife of a business owner, you must be able to see the other side. If your husband came home and said he had someone out for the year but still had to pay them wouldn’t that affect YOU greatly. More so than any benefit you would gain from a leave?
I am really starting to see a part of that, yes. See, I don’t think Canadian business owners have to pay anything to employees that are gone. If they choose to, that is their choice. The government is who pays for the leave, up to $425 a week.
HOWEVER, if he had an employee take 6 months off to be with his wife I know that he would not enjoy having to hire a temp, train the temp and then keep that spot open for that employee to come back.
I see that point and wish deep down there was a solution for people who have to return to work. I hate that some moms return to work after only 6 weeks. But like you said earlier, maybe if they handled their money right and planned for their children better…..I get what you are saying 🙂
You’re right Annie – the company, business owners, etc., don’t pay for that employee in that year off (or however many months they take if they split it with their spouse). EI (employment insurance) is deducted from each cheque, like taxes, and sent to the gov’t which covers that time period when/if it happens. EI, like others have said, can also be used if you find yourself laid off, need time to take care of family matters for a dying relative, etc.
Even though what you wrote about maternity/paternity leave in the US is true, some larger employers offer paid maternity leave and paternity leave. Its still not as long as other countries, but they offer it.
When I took time off for Brighton I took 8 weeks, I was able to use saved up vacation tine and got paid for 4 weeks of it. I wish the US would wake up and realize that even though it may only take 6 weeks for a mom to recover from giving birth, doesn’t mean she’s physically or emotionally ready to leave her baby for 8+ hours a day. I cried after dropping Brighton off at daycare for a full week and other times too. Plus, since I’d used all my vacation time when for maternity leave, I’d have to take unpaid days off for appts and sick days. I’m glad I’m a SAHM now. And that I have a husband who is supportive of it.
I would pay higher taxes for these type of childcare benefits-I admire Canada and all they do for its residents. I believe Canada to be very progressive with benefits etc. and I hope one day the US could learn something from them.