Let’s chat this out in the comments – I want to hear what you think. There are two sides to every opinion – this one does not have much room for grey. You either support gestation crates, don’t care (then why are you reading this?) or wish they would all disappear.
I’ve thought a lot about them. I have spent a lot of time reading about them. And at the end of the day, I don’t believe that the pork farmers that use them are bad people. I think they use them because they are trying to protect the sows during a very vulnerable time.
I am also not set in my thinking and love an honest, respectful conversation. I understand there are issues with gestation crates. If pigs could talk, I would love to hear what their choice would be – to put up with fighting in a group of other pigs or deal with safe but cramped quarters. Since they can’t talk, all we can do is guess and chat it out.
So, let’s chat.
I think everyone has opinions on the crates, but what about the facts about why farmers use them? Well, Ryan Goodman wrote an excellent and in-depth post explaining the facts and logic behind the crates. Good read to get ya started for this discussion.
To give you some food for thought, I found this 5 year-old video from Australia. Age and location aside, it shares both sides equally. Sows in gestation stalls/crates are protected from the super aggressive sows. They receive plenty of food without having to fight the other pigs for it – and a pregnant sow needs the food more than the bully, non pregnant one, right? Of course the crates are pretty cramped – they offer enough room to turn around and walk about one step forward and backwards. But in the interest of protecting those unborn piglets, I think gestation crates are necessary.
What do you think?
*please note – I will be monitoring these comments. Any vulgar, hateful language will be edited as needed. I want this to be a thoughtful, positive discussion 🙂
Awful. I’m not PETA but come on… Would you want to be stuck in a box for your conception/pregnancy or your wife to be like that? It’s miserable. I understand why they do it though. My point? Make the pens bigger!
Thank you Alex. Making the pens bigger is where my thoughts want to go, as well. I understand why they haven’t yet made them larger all at once….I mean, that is quite a chunk of change to lay down….
It seems cruel but a lot of what farmers and agribusiness goes beyond my wheelhouse.
“Goes beyond my wheelhouse” – love that phrase. And thank you for sharing your impression. I think the lack of respectful communication on this issue is hindering advancement.
It does “seem” cruel….but I wonder if it really is as cruel as we feel? I remember being on bedrest to protect my baby…Yes, I was on a comfy bed, not a slat floor…but it was still mentally torturing….but the protection of the unborn is what is important….good stuff to think about
My daughter studies animal science and I am sure she would have a lot to say. Most of the things they do for animals on farms tend to be to keep them comfortable and calm.
I try not to think about it too much. I don’t feel comfortable with them in crates like that, but then again, I’m not comfortable with dogs or cats in crates at the pet store, either. 🙁
Lisa, you bring up a very common view: a compassion for the animal. The question remains: how does the farmer protect the sow from overly aggressive sows that will potentially injure the unborn piglets? Your compassionate side wants those sows to be given the sunshine and comfy mud to roll in….but then there is the other side – not being able to get enough food while pregnant because the other sows eat it all….
I have your compassion though. That is why my hens and roosters are so free range 🙂
I first want to say I’m not really versed on this type of situation so if there are laws and laws about animal cruelty please excuse my daftness. However, aren’t these pigs basically being bred for us to eat? Sure, I say make the crates bigger for their comfort but in the long run, they are still going to the slaughter so lets not waste too much money on it.
Lee
And that is the thing – it isn’t cruelty. They are being protected from the aggressive and sometimes cruel sows. Sure, they might not have a ton of room to run….but they are well cared for and well fed.
I think what most people are worried about is their comfort. And you have a good point – how much money should we spend on their “comfort” especially if they are bred to be eaten?
I agree that these pigs are bred strictly for meat, but in the process they can be treated more humanely. The statement that “they’re well cared for” is way too general. Before you have a definite opinion, go on the humane animal sites, that have taken undercover camera inside the barns to see the horror these animals endure every day. Videos of kicking, beatings with boards, when they can’t stand up, slamming piglets on the concrete until they’re unconscious and bleeding to death, getting they’re eyes gauged out, just for fun, ect. The crates aren’t really the problem…it’s the torture they go through before they’re processed, that bothers me. As far as keeping the pregnant sows separate from aggressive sows, they can put several of them in a small outdoor runs, with a fence. Many of the top restaurants won’t support any of these places with gestation crates. I’m very happy for that.
if we make the creates bigger than that means the future pigs that come to the farm will have lots more space to move in and the way it should be is that each pig has its own pen but one big enough for them to roam
While my sister was in 4h one of the animals she showed every year was a pig. We knew the people she got them from and visited often, especially when the pigs had their babies. The kids loved it. From my outside experience in seeing how those pigs were raised compared to pigs in crates I don’t agree with it. I understand the meaning behind it BUT I still think it’s wrong. The area that the sows were kept was about the size of my bathroom (size reference, I can lay across my bathroom and still have four feet each way). So not only was the sow able to walk around but after her babies were born there was still plenty of room for all of them to be in there until they were weaned.
While I understand 4h verses farmers is completely different I still don’t understand the need to keep them completely cooped up with little to no room in those crates.
That’s a tough one. I’m split. The farmers can only do so much, right? They are trying to make a living and can’t be expected to buy bigger pens – but on the other hand -those poor pigs.
Honestly I kinda suck and haven’t given much thought to it, although I prefer to buy free range meat when I can… This seems pretty nasty to me, I wouldn’t want to be in a crate!! I really need to do more research to form an opinion.
Of course you wouldn’t want to be in a crate – but then again….if you lived in a dorm full of other women that constantly beat up on you and put your unborn baby at risk, maybe a little separation is a good thing?
And then this is where it gets murky. Trying to empathize with pigs we are going to eat? They are not humans. Yes, we need to have compassion and care for them, but we can’t really treat them like humans, ya know?
pretty sure I had heard about this before and the farmers’ comment on it was something along the lines of ‘oh my God, have you SEEN what they can do to each other, just as healthy adults penned up together?!?’ can’t imagine having a sow down and forcing her to fend off the other pigs. I know if you fall in a pig pen you better get up or they will hold you down and.. well, eat you. so you better get to your feet. yikes. oh and for the record, they only put them in there when it’s time for them to deliver not the whole time they are pregnant.
Exactly my point! That video I put in this post has a clip of the sows beating up on each other in it. These pens really do a lot of GOOD.
I don’t really like the idea, but I suppose it’s a necessary evil, right?
Thanks for asking this question, putting it out there for discussion, and linking to my blog post with information from USFRA. I’m not a pig farmer, but I’ve worked with several of these farmers. I respect their decisions in raising their animals just as I make decisions when raising my own cattle.
One thing I might point out, previous comments have referenced these crates at farrowing time. There’s a difference between gestation and farrowing pens. The gestation pens protect the sow from rough-housing by other sows during pregnancy. The farrowing pens have more room, keep the sow from rolling over on her pigs, and at the same time is small enough to keep them warm.
I have a problem with using the word “humane” relative to treatment of livestock. They’re not humans, so we can’t be expected to treat them like the person in the house next door. I treat my animals with respect, providing for all of their needs (food, a comfortable environment, and protection from dangers) and imagine pork farmers do the same.
Thank you for bringing up the word “humane.” That is a super good point! Yes, we need to be respectful and make sure they are well cared for, but they are not human and are raised for our consumption. Excellent “food for thought.” (pardon the pun)
I hadn’t thought about the use of the word humane before. That is definitely something that I will need to roll around in my brain some more.
This one is hard, because I can see both sides of it. I have a feeling my thoughts are going to be pretty random, but I haven’t thought much about this.
We feel compassion for the pigs, yet we lick our fingers when the bacon is done cooking. I bet the farmers could actually raise more pigs if they didn’t have to pen them like that, and could make more money.
It’s a business, and the farmers are just trying to sustain their income, so they do what’s best for running the business and keeping the pigs alive until it’s time to make bacon. Maybe this is one of those times when we have to separate our hearts and our heads, and this is probably why I would not make a good farmer. Raising all those pigs just to watch….well, you know.
I guess when it’s all said and done we know the ultimate demise, do we want their life to be “better” while they’re here? I don’t know. Pigs were given to us to eat, right?
Gosh everything I said makes me sound like such a heartless human. I really do like pigs. HA!
You sound like you are echoing my exact thoughts, Jenny! You do NOT sound awful in the least. And this is my point and why I want to discuss it. There are people and organizations that sensationalize animal farming and over-hype their compassion for the animals. Animals that we are raising to eat are not our pets, they are not humans. There has to be a balance – they do need respect, proper care, and make sure they are comfortable.
Your inner struggle is exactly how I feel and why I wrote this post 🙂
Just a clarification – the pigs that are in these large crates are not typically what we eat for bacon. Market hogs are 250-275# (roughly) and that is, mostly, what we see as ham, bacon, sausage. Those ARE grouped in pens and large groups. It’s when they get mature and hormones start flowing more (think pregnancy) that sows can do a lot of damage, and may be twice the size of market hogs. That’s when prevention of squabbles is key not just for the safety of pigs but really – are you going to get between two 500-600 pound powerhouses and say “come on girls play nice now?” 😀 I’m not!
We’re setting up individual sow housing, but are on a much smaller situation than is needed for commercial production. For grins – Call and price a typical hog barn. Now make it 4-5 times bigger. A few pennies right? 🙂
There’s also the ‘freedom stalls’ – saw someone here recently on the USFRA page that said his still spent something like 95% of their time in crates when they have a choice. We can’t ask them, but when given a choice and they prefer that, why should we eliminate that option for them if that’s where they’re safe and happy?
Thank you for that clarification, Jan. I actually did not know the difference between market hog and mature sows. Definitely something to keep in mind – especially about their size!
If this is an example of the crates, they are too small. They should be able to walk around a bit and not just stand up or lie down. I have no doubt that they are necessary, but if the sow is aggravated from being too confined, I can’t see that the nervousness would be good for a pregnant sow.
Interesting thought. If the pregnant mother (and the piglets) safety is the focus is the stress of not being about to move enough to to have a negative effect on her health and the health of the babies she is carrying? I don’t know the answer.
I agree that option is nice (and being provided for ours as we get into our setup) but on the other hand, pigs are pretty content with food, water, shelter and not being picked on. They don’t exercise a whole lot although obviously if you put them in a half acre lot with water on one end and feed at the other they’d have to! 🙂 They’re not as active as some other species. Sometimes it’s hard to think what *we* want may be much different from what the pig wants.
We have chickens and rabbits also and hear “would you like to be in a cage” – no but I’m not a chicken or rabbit. our chickens are in pens, outdoor/indoor and when the group starts picking on a weaker member they will KILL her with no remorse shown. Rabbits – mine sprawl out and sleep soundly enough that until I shake the cage sometimes they don’t wake up. They’d be killed quickly in the wild – other rabbits don’t have the luxury of sound sleeping! So I think they’re pretty happy, even though they’re in a cage. Perspective is hard sometimes.
I live on a small 3 acre piece of property that is slowly becoming a farm that will hopefully completely sustain our family one day. Our goal is to be self reliant, sustainable, and green. We are planning a huge garden, and currently have chickens for both meat and eggs. We will be adding more animals in later years. I have a lot to say about both commercial and sustainable farming practices.
One of the lines in the video caught my attention. They want to make choices that are sustainable, yet driven by what Australians want. I’m not sure what the stats in Australia are, but in America, every American consumes an average of 17 lbs of bacon per year. The average pig makes about 16 lbs of bacon. That means we need to produce more than 1 pig per year for every person in America.
People WANT kinder, gentler housing for livestock animals, but they aren’t willing to reduce their consumption of meat or specific cuts of meat to make up for that. Pig housing, specifically, is very expensive, because a 300 lb pig can easily take out fencing and shelter if they get the urge to do so. You can’t just put up barbed wire or cattle fence and expect to contain them. We are looking at adding pigs to our farm in small numbers and the cost to set up their shelter will be huge, and it will probably need yearly repair work. While over the years, the cost will even out, it’s still very expensive to shelter a pig.
Our plan is to use Artificial Insemination (AI) to get a sow pregnant, and let her birth and naturally raise her piglets until weaning. We’ll keep two to butcher, and another to get pregnant next year, and sell the rest to others who want to butcher their own meat. AI is cheaper and easier than keeping a boar on site, as they can be aggressive. This means for our family of six (two of my kids are grown and out of the house), we’ll have about 32 pounds of bacon per year, which averages out to just over 5 lbs per year, per person. We will not be buying additional pork. When we’re out, we’re out.
I realize that most people can’t just grow a pig in their back yard. But until we, as a society, are willing to reduce our consumption of certain types of meat, it will be difficult for commercial farmers to do anything to increase the comfort of the sows and still keep up with the demand, while making a profit. While I don’t agree with most commercial farming practices (we will be isolating our pregnant sows, but in much larger pens), I can see why they are used the way they are.
Also be aware that “free range” is a relative term. Animals are still confined to pens or pastures. My chickens are “free range” but they are confined to my property by fence. Otherwise my neighbors would be pretty pissed when my chickens get into their garden. My chickens have a LOT of room to range, and this will grow as other things happen on my farm (read as: when I an afford to buy more fence), but they aren’t just wandering all over the place. Ideally my chicken run will feed into my small orchard, allowing my chickens to fertilize the ground under the fruit trees while keeping the bugs and weeds at bay.
Annie
@BakwudsHouswife
I didn’t realize the average person eats 17lbs of bacon a year.
Thank you, Annie. You make such a valid point – 17 lbs of bacon is a LOT of food. I know for a fact Americans are consuming way too much food. And again – that high demand does mean the farmers have to think of keeping up with it. Interesting perspective, I really appreciate it!
I grew up in an agricultural area, and live in that area again now. I respect farmers, and their decisions on how best to raise their animals. I think talking about “humane” treatment of animals is a misnomer, as one of the other commenters said, because they aren’t human. These animals are being raised for a purpose.
Exactly, Leigh. There is a definite difference between abusing animals (which then stresses them out and makes the meat taste awful) and treating them with respect so the meat is delicious. I think our human tendency to be compassionate goes a bit far with animals we are raising to eat.
That being said, I truly respect people’s decisions to be vegetarians. In that case, they don’t eat the meat, so they prefer all animals to be free…..I love bacon, so I can’t think with that mind set 🙂
Ugh. I’m so conflicted. On one hand I think it’s so sad for them to be kept in the crates, but I can see why it’s important to keep them safe given the nature of sows. This is one of those tough things. You want the animals to be kept safe, but at the same time you want them to be free and have lots of room to move around. 🙁
It is hard to do both well…there’s concessions with each type of management! As we set up our pens, we’re looking at a few sows over a half acre spot – room for them to move around and yet be separated. Not too long ago there was a farmer that was killed and partially eaten by adult sows. Breeding animals of any species can be dangerous. I hear people talk about rabbits as soft, gentle, mild mannered things and have scars! Have had people eye cuts on my arms as abuse and don’t believe a *rabbit* did it! Finding that balance between what is best for the animal, easiest for the keeper, most economical (because none of us have loads of money!) and a host of other factors is why there’s so many options in food choices.
I totally understand what you are saying. And there are farmers that have “freedom pens” for that purpose. Of course, their meat is going to be a higher price – but I think everyone should vote with their dollar. If this is important to you, buy from a local pig farmer (I know there are quite a few in MO) that doesn’t use crates.
I don’t have an answer. I often wonder if the very small crates are also a way to pack in more sows and make more money? I’m not bashing on farmers, just curious. I like pork quite a lot. My whole family does so of course this feeds into the need to raise more pigs. Obviously I am a part of the problem. As another commenter said until people cut back there is a huge market for pork I’m not sure changes could be made even if it is better. I am enjoying this conversation, it has given me a lot to think about.
Catherine, that is exactly why I am having it! And I am sooooo appreciative that everyone is being thoughtful and respectful in the comments. There are some very valid points being brought up!
I understand the thought and idea behind them I just think they could make it more comfortable.
Kas
Suggestions?! Keeping in mind durable and easy to clean – am looking at rubber mats for our sows…but we’ll be small with outdoor access that can do more than other large farms.
I’ve become conflicted about animal welfare for a while now – most notably when I first became aware of the horse slaughter industry (we bought 2 pregnant mares from the slaughter lot to “save” them). My stomach turns to think of eating horses, yet cows and pigs are equally sociable and intelligent animals (some would argue more so) and I eat bacon and steak without becoming squeamish. It’s made me look at our diet and I have consciously substituted ground turkey for beef and more chicken and fish meals in an effort to reduce our eating of what I consider the more intelligent animals. I won’t cut it out completely, so obviously I don’t feel strongly enough about it to truly act, but it’s been niggling at the back of my mind.
I’ve also considered that if we found life on other planets that was half as intelligent as a pig or dog, we would spend countless $$’s learning to communicate with it and applaud our ability to get across simple concepts like “sit’ and “open the door I need to go out” yet, because these animals are native to our planet, we consider them inferior to humans.
This makes me sound like I’m a huge animal activist and against the whole concept of raising animals for food, but I’m not. I am conflicted though – this rambling and bouncing around ideas is what my stream of consciousness looks like 🙂
So, regarding the gestation pens? I don’t know.
Daria, I know what you mean. I like pork too and I eat a lot of chicken. If I get to thinking about it too much, it could really bother me. Some of my vegetarian acquaintances have made very rude remarks to me about me consuming carcasses, etc. Finally, I told one of them, okay, if we all suddenly stopped eating any kind of meat, do you really think farmers or us, for that matter, are going to raise animals for pets? If they don’t want to eat meat, fine, I don’t have a problem with that, but thank goodness a lot of us still do. A pig was not meant to be a pet, even though some people have raised them as such. My uncle also raised a skunk, but that doesn’t mean skunks were meant to be pets.
I am giggling at your comment about the skunks! There are definitely some very passionate vegetarians and animal welfare activists out there. I respect their opinion and their right to not eat meat. I also really (and I mean REALLY) love bacon. Turkey bacon is just not the same. But I’m not the cold-hearted nasty person they want to portray me as. I want to make sure the food I eat wasn’t abused and tormented first. And seriously – if a pig is born in a crate, never really knows the “freedom” we do? Do they miss it? I think we overthink things sometimes LOL
You make such valid – and popular – points. So many people are starting to talk more about their compassion for the more “intelligent” animals. It is definitely a growing trend. And I can promise you, the pork farmers are wanting to hear what everyone is thinking.
Great controversial topic to bring to our attention! Thanks for sharing.
Sure, but do you have any thoughts to add? I totally respect it if you feel it is too controversial for you to want to add to it in any way, just wondering 🙂
While their space is very small, they really aren’t being mistreated in any way. As humans, we do tend to over think things, just like you said. We would like to think that all of God’s little creatures are being treated well and these hogs look like they are doing just fine. I’ve enjoyed these little conversations.
I may not be the best one to add to this conversation because I don’t do pig compassion. They’re food. Now, if this were some animal that gets skinned while still barely alive to make a fur coat, then I’d have a stronger opinion because fur coats aren’t a necessity for human sustenance. I honestly can’t say I really care how the pigs feel until they’re killed for us to cook so long as whatever is done doesn’t affect the quality of the meat. That’s all they are to me – breakfast. A sandwich. Dinner, smothered with sauteed onions LOL If you ask me, it seems like a pretty humane set up for a bunch of pigs… I’m not going to say, “I wouldn’t want to be locked up in a crate,” because I’m not born with the purpose of being fed and grown to kill and eat. I don’t feel the need to empathize with a pig any more than I empathize with a bag of rice cakes. It’s all food to me.
I understand the practical aspects of gestation crates, I even know several animals who prefer confined spaces to wide open ones, but I’ll admit the sight of hogs in the crates does bother me. Does anyone know if any research has been collected about long term veterinary impacts of the crates vs. free stall. Do crated hogs have more (or less) feet, joint, and back problems compared to breeding stock not kept in the gestation crates? I apologize if this was covered in the video, I couldn’t get it to play.
I would like to state, I’ve been around ag folks my whole life, nearly all of them are wonderful, but as a group, hog farmers have always been my favorite. I don’t think I’ve ever met a nicer, funnier, more humble collection of individuals.
Annie,
This is a tough one to think through. I had never been to a pig farm that is on a scale of helping feed lots of people until last spring. Funny as I’ve lived in quite a few major metropolitan areas where the vast majority of food comes from bigger farms. Sure I also buy from small farms & I had seen some of those, but seeing pigs in crates in barns was different. I had a lot of questions too. Seeing it for myself and having my questions answered made me think about it differently than I had before. One of the posts I wrote on the visit talks about what I saw in the pig barns http://janiceperson.com/food/pigs-farm-hog-barn-ordering-dominos-pizza/
I think knowing the animals are livestock rather than pets…. whether that’s a rationalization or logical conclusion…. they have been bred to provide meat for us, not to curl up at our feet. It sounds heartless I know but I think where it really gets heartless is when people waste food, not being good stewards of it.
jp
I think that farmers are using the protection of the preggo piggy as an excuse. If they were really concerned about the well-being of the pig, they would make the crates larger so that it had space to move around more. THIS is why I rarely eat pork, it’s almost impossible to find humanely-raised pork.
Ah. I miss bacon so much 🙁
This has been an interesting blog and comments for me to read as a pork producer. I appreciate the concern and thoughts about how we as farmers care for your food. I use individual pens for gestating our mother pigs currently but not always in the past. One of the most common questions I get while giving tours of our family farm is why not give them more space? And it’s a great question. The assumption is more space would make them happier or it would certainly make us feel better about their situation. So we studied this on our farm and gave them more space for them to turn around in the stall and the aggression increased along with injuries even deaths. Since the care of the sows on our farm is the most important thing, we have opted to say with our stalls even though from the outside it looks crueler. If anyone is in Nebraska we have an open door policy at our farm, come and take a look.
I am a dairy farmer, not a pig farmer, but had a couple of thoughts. One, I see there is a lot of talk about gestation crates to save some sows from aggressive sows. Cows tend to be the same way, and can lead to a need to divide the cows into different groups. Many large dairies will have a separate group for first calf heifers because they tend to get beaten up by older cows. Why couldn’t that could be done with pigs? Use group housing? Seems like it would be much more cost effective than all of those individual pens.
I also noticed some people saying that they don’t really care how their food is raised. I think that we all have a responsibility to see that our food s raised humanely. Granted, “humane” can be in the eye of the beholder, but when we ignore it, I think we see more of the PETA moments – the downer cows being thrown around with forklifts, etc.
I am a vegetarian and strong advocate against gestation crates. I found the first comment disturbing, how can some people overlook that these animals are living, breathing beings and have the ability to feel pain and suffer? It has been said that a pigs intelligence level meets that of a 3 year old boy. These animals are very smart and highly intelligent and we treat them like this??? Then there are some people who only view them as a piece of meat? What we are doing to them, and all of the other “victims” is an abomination. As for gestation crates, I am in favor of a ban but would want to see a humane option introduced which would protect the piglets from any accidental falls. The world really needs to wake up to the horrors of animal abuse, and not just in the food production industry — it’s everywhere. If you eat meat, it only makes sense that you know where it comes from and see how it’s made, it should be required for everyone and anyone who takes part in this process of life and death. Got compassion? Caring…it can make you a better person and the world a better place.
Regarding my comment above, I wanted to share a humane alternative to the conventional farrowing crates, which if not careful puts the babies at risk for being crushed by the mother. This looks awesome, now if we could just get it implemented across the board!! http://www.certifiedhumane.org/uploads/pdf/Fact%20Sheets/pigs_farrowing_systems.pdf
I work daily with sows in open housing and in gestation crates-I believe 100% in them for the safety and health of the animal and those working with them.
http://www.jentsfrontporch.com/2011/01/gestation-crates-good.html
http://www.jentsfrontporch.com/2011/05/tale-of-two-sows.html
The argument that these pigs are raised for food, so why bother worrying about their comfort makes me so angry. They are living beings. No, they aren’t human or pets, but they should be entitled to a good life. As far as crates, they should be bigger. If a pet shop had tiny, cramped cages people would throw a fit. And if their excuse was that it was too expensive or didn’t have room to get bigger ones, would people accept it or tell them to house fewer animals so they could do it properly? I understand farmers are trying to make a living, but when did our financial goals trump a living, feeling, intelligent animal’s right to even just move?